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1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamhost
05-14-2006, 05:37 PM
Post: #11
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
I have the following to report, most of the issues I raised were resolved. Moreover I was left very impressed with the quality of responses from DH support. No comparison to the proforma responses I am accustomed to.

I also agree with a general idea of trying to do things on your own. But, please do not be delusional about the level of technical expertise by the general public. Appreciate the fact that many of these issues simply seem overwhelming for an average user and panic sets in. Please get off the geek high horse and realize that just the tools out there, 5 times out of 10 act in unpredictable ways (as was the case with my FTP programs), realize that what’s at stake here are sites that are depository of years of work. Add to it general feeling of frustration with the hosting industry. Then perhaps you can take your fascist “terminate account” comment back.
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05-14-2006, 07:13 PM
Post: #12
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
Quote:My post was just a general response to several threads lately which have been negative towards DH.

Now that was a responsible, professional, and fair attitude to take (not!). Well, at least you should be commended for recognizng, even if after the fact, that your subject line was unfair on the face of it, and you managed to migate that with some dignity.

Quote:Appreciate the fact that many of these issues simply seem overwhelming for an average user and panic sets in.

I believe the fact that many of us respopnded to your (obviously "clueless", even given the "general level of expertise by the general public) post is good indications that we make plenty of allowance for "panic". As for the "geek high horse" comment, make no mistake, a true "geek" on a "high horse" would have completely ignored you, not tried to help you.

Quote:realize that what’s at stake here are sites that are depository of years of work

If that is the case, I respectfully submit that you should consider hiring, or otherwise engaging the services of, someone who knows their way around a *nix command line to manage your site.

Quote:Then perhaps you can take your fascist “terminate account” comment back.

I think your comment of "No servce", thumbs down for Dreamhost", after they responded to your "support reuest" that should not have even had to answer would warrant getting rid of you as soon as possible (though Dreamhost is *far* to tolerant to do anything like that). What better indication could they have that you are likely to be a total "pain in the ass" customer they would probably be better off not having on a shared server.

You need to grow up, learn to read, and quit expecting it all to just happen for you. *You* picked the ftp client (not overly "buggy", and got the tarball from the other host. You choices all around. Take responsibility for your own fate, and when you need help, learn how to ask questions intelligently without slandering others in the process. If you make progress toward those goals, you will get along fine here...otherwise....oh well

-rlparker
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05-14-2006, 10:10 PM
Post: #13
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
Quote:I think your comment of "No servce", thumbs down for Dreamhost", after they responded to your "support reuest" that should not have even had to answer would warrant getting rid of you as soon as possible (though Dreamhost is *far* to tolerant to do anything like that). What better indication could they have that you are likely to be a total "pain in the ass" customer they would probably be better off not having on a shared server.

You need to grow up, learn to read, and quit expecting it all to just happen for you. *You* picked the ftp client (not overly "buggy", and got the tarball from the other host. You choices all around. Take responsibility for your own fate, and when you need help, learn how to ask questions intelligently without slandering others in the process. If you make progress toward those goals, you will get along fine here...

I totally agree. Just because things are different to your other host, you need not panic and give Dreamhost a thumbs down. The truth is, you just haven't gotten used to the service yet but when you have, you will find that things are much easier here in Dreamhost compared to hosts with cpanel for instance Tongue

I quite like Dreamhosts's panel - everything in one place! *total love*.
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05-14-2006, 10:36 PM
Post: #14
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
I think you guys need to settle down. This is turning into a bashing, and there's no call for that.

For someone with little expirence the 'dreamhost learning curve' can be extreme! A lot of people come here from a cpanel type host where everything has pretty pictures in the web-interface. Now at dreamhost you're confronted with needing an FTP client, web design software, SSH access... And to someone not overly familiar with the web industry this can be more than overwhelming.

Sure it's a good idea to learn how to do this stuff on your own becuase it gives you greater control. I know for a fact that there's hundreds of things you can do on your own through dreamhost that no cpanel host could dream of. But that doesn't mean it's easy to understand it all. Even reading the wiki can be difficult becuase the people who write the articles (including me) forget that not everyone knows the lingo.

I think that in a perfect world dreamhost support would have said, "okay, I unpacked that tar file for you and placed the stuff into your web-accessable area. Please read this article on SSH for future reference so you can do this sort of thing on your own" But it's not. You know, just becuase somone knew DOS commands in the days of win 3.X doesn't mean you could jump right back in and re-write the autoexec.bat file for a custom start up menu, or rember to add a line to get it to start windows automatically instead of getting dumped to the prompt.

The world of web hosting is huge, and can be quite confusing. Don't jump on someones back just becuase they don't know everything yet.

--Matttail
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05-15-2006, 12:40 AM
Post: #15
Dreamhost "Service" reports differ
Matt,

I agree with a lot of what you posted, particularly the part about "settling down". I, for one, have no interest in participating in a "bashing" and I detest "wars" of all kinds (even "flame wars"). Having said that, I don't believe that visitors to this forum are well served by the kind of postings that started this thread, which, really, is the equivalent of a "drive-by bashing" of Dreamhost, even though tech support appears to have responded in a completely appropriate manner.

I know that you have always offered all the help you could to users who are having difficulty. I have done the same, and was not intending to be overly harsh with this poster. My issue was with the "NO service, thumbs down for Dreamhost" subject he posted, followed by, as best I can translate it, his "complaint" that the poster got no help because he/she couldn't understand the instruction they gave him. Really now, that should not be let go unchallenged.

Pointing out to the poster that the subject line of the post was unfairly critical, that their expectations were not reasonable in this environment, and pointing them toward a "classic" writing on the "netiquette" of asking for help were all attempts at helping this user learn how to make the most of his hosting environment here at Dreamhost.

Quote:Now at dreamhost you're confronted with needing an FTP client, web design software, SSH access... And to someone not overly familiar with the web industry this can be more than overwhelming.
That is absolutely true, but I don't believe the fact that it is true absolves someone, who decides, on their volition, to enter this environment, from being held to standards of civilized behavior in public communities. Hence, my suggestion that this user consider getting some professional help with working in the shell (if he was unwilling or unable to learn the basics) was intended to show alternative ways to accomplish his goals. Still, I see no "bashing" going on.

Yes, I got a little "pointed" *in response* to the poster characterizing another's post as a "fascist comment". I'll grant you that, given the way this poster had already "characterized" himself with his initial subject and subsequent post, I probably should have just ignored it. I just thought that maybe if I posted "one more time", he might begin to get a little more accurate perspective. I didn't do this for *any other reason* then to help this user learn how to behave in a manner that would make his life a little *easier* here, and in other technical forums. I also wanted to add a little "balance" by interjecting the thought that in many environments "you reap what you sow"; the blatant unfairness of his post's subject could not encourage Dreamhost to "go the extra mile" to help him.

Quote:I think that in a perfect world dreamhost support would have said, "okay, I unpacked that tar file for you and placed the stuff into your web-accessable area. Please read this article on SSH for future reference so you can do this sort of thing on your own" But it's not.
That kind of "perfect world" initially sounds very nice, but I don't think that it is reasonable for a user to expect that, for what he pays for Dreamhost shared hosting, Dreamhost should do these kinds of things for him. Tech support resources are "rivalrous"; there is only so much of it to go around, and everyone of these types of requests pushes the requests that *absolutely require* the involvment of tech support staff further down the que. We help our own community here when we try to spare Dreamhost from this type of support burden. That (and the fact that I enjoy helping others) is *one* of the reason I post here whenever I can. I don't want Dreamhost shared servers to become the "AOL" of the webhosting world; I'd like for those I share a server with to at least have a clue (self-preservation personality trait showing through here).

Quote:Don't jump on someones back just becuase they don't know everything yet.
I don't think that is completely fair, Matt, as my issue with the poster was not about his needing help, but rather his "No service, thumbs down" subject line followed by, what I characterize as being primarily a "whine". We all "whine" now and then when we are "having a really bad day", but it is not appropriate to do it in public at another's expense (in this case, Dreamhost's and the support tech who handled his request). If part of the "everything" that someone doesn't know is what is reasonable and what is not, or the basics of fairness and netiquette, I believe a little "jumping" is potentially helpful in encouraging that someone to learn those things. If it is only ignorance, education can help; some of the rudest people I know just don't know any better. If it is a personality issue, the education might seem to be "wasted" because they won't or can't learn, but there *is* the chance that a subsequent reader of the thread *will* learn somthing from it. I realize that this type of "education" may or may not help; at the end of the day everyone behaves in what ever way they choose.

Though I don't think I "jumped on his back", I am willing to recognize that it could be characterized that way, and for that I sincerely apologize.

You have always been a "prince" on these forums, Matt, and I have great respect for your comments. I agree that this thread has adequately run its course (either my points were taken to some degree by the poster and he learned, or he did not) so there is no point in dragging it out. I consider the matter closed, and appreciate your encourging me to do that. Another reason to quit "picking at this scab" is to get the original "borked" subject line to be less predominately displayed to forum vistors, since Dreamhost's famous respect for integrity would never allow them to change or delte it. I can't believe I didn't think to change it in my second post :-(.

Besides, in the time I've spent typing these last three messages I might could have been helpful to other users :-)

</bash>
--rlparker
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05-15-2006, 01:09 AM
Post: #16
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
I told you to stay in bed Norm!

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Norm
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05-15-2006, 01:17 AM
Post: #17
Dreamhost "Service" reports differ
I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I'm with the original poster of this thread. I, too have had numerous negative experiences with Dreamhost support. Why, my requests for Dreamhost Support to create a customized Content Management System have yet to be filled, never mind my numerous requests for Thai massage. I mean, what kind of a company are these people running?

Tongue
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05-15-2006, 09:04 AM
Post: #18
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
Quote:I can tell that you are frustrated, but do you really think that is the responsibility of the tech support staff to do more than to provide you instructions for what you want to do? Did you want them to unpack the tarball for you?
They used to.

Dreamhost has switched from a quality to a quantity model. They used to provided a quality service at a higher price than many other hosts. I stuck with DH because of the quality. Then they started dramatically increasing bandwidth and storage. Things like the 24hr support response time went out the window. Downtime increased dramatically.

The other disadvantage of the new business model is the type of customer it attracts. They are attracting people who only know how to compare plans based on disk storage, bandwidth and similar features. No longer do I see DH referred to on web forums as a solid host. On web dev forums, I hardly ever see them mentioned at all. In fact, they're often referred to as a host to avoid.

So you can't really be upset that many people here don't have a clue when it comes to things like SSH. That's what the current DH marketing plan is attracting.
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05-15-2006, 09:39 AM
Post: #19
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
Quote:So you can't really be upset that many people here don't have a clue when it comes to things like SSH. That's what the current DH marketing plan is attracting.
Your post is full of good insights; the line quoted above sums it up nicely. I just hate to see Dreamhost become the "AOL" of the webhosting industry ;-).

--rlparker
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05-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Post: #20
1st day of NO service, thumbs down for dreamho
OK it's day 2nd, the site is down, DH panel is down and without the telpehone it's nowhere to ask if there is a problem? Perhaps here?
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