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Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
05-29-2001, 03:32 PM
Post: #1
Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
Jeff--

Thanks for the info on Phorum (which you posted in "Off-Topic")...

I've never done PHP, and I have enough trouble wrapping my 2.3 brain cells around Perl, so I may pass. <g>

Speaking of PHP, though... I've noticed that the stuff Dreamweaver UltraDev offers in live database-driven site development (ASP, JSP and CFML) is not supported by DH (I don't do ASP anyway)... And live PHP-driven data is not supported by UltraDev.

On the Macromedia site, I've seen posts from people begging them to create full PHP support... But since they just merged with Allaire, I'm sure their focus will remain on Cold Fusion for a while.

My copy of UltraDev is rusting away, only able to fulfill a small fraction of its destiny... It appears there's just no way for me to develop a database-driven site at Dream Host using the live data capabilities in UltraDev.

And IIRC, Cold Fusion server won't/can't be installed on the Dream Host servers for some reason.

I know there are some small PHP plug-ins for UltraDev, but do you or anyone else know of a full-fledged PHP plug-in?

Or... Have I completely missed some way to do a DH MySQL site with live data from within UltraDev?

...Bob
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05-29-2001, 04:12 PM
Post: #2
Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
Hi Bob -

PHP is much easier than Perl to get started in. It's a lot less finicky when it comes to server configurations, and has a lot of nice pre-written routines for database access and sessions that Perl does not. While it's not quite as flexible as Perl (ie. I wouldn't write shell scripts in it probably), it's geared heavily toward web site development. I find that I can get a basic web script up and running from scratch with it in about half the time. If you've ever written ASP, it's about the same thing.

As for UltraDev, I've never used it so I really can't comment. It's quite possible that Macromedia doesn't have a lot of people internally familiar with PHP, or there are technical reasons for its exclusion. It could also be political, in that they want to move people toward their own products or services. Hard to say.

On our side of things, we've erred toward supporting things we've had a lot of personal experience in. Most of us are either long-time Unix users, Perl coders, PHP devs, etc. so our offerings tend to reflect that. There's certainly a LOT of money in NT servers, ASP, and Cold Fusion, but it'd be a lot harder for us to support something we don't use ourselves.

That said, the customer IS king and we will add stuff that - even if we don't use it ourselves - our customers demand. In this case I think there's more of a chance for us to support ASP in the future than Cold Fusion, but in either case there are often large licensing fees involved to get things running so we need to be very very sure it's something our customers want and need. We just need to know that the demand exists to warrant it (suffice to say these things and others do get discussed regularly on our internal marketing mailing lists).

The best thing you can do is to make it known to us what you want, and have others do the same.

...

I just checked Macromedia's site. It looks like there are several 3rd party solutions for some PHP functionality (not sure to what extent), and it sounds like they _might_ be willing to support PHP if there is suitable demand.

http://www.macromedia.com/support/ultrad...tradev.htm

Who will crack first? DreamHost or Macromedia? Will DH ever support Frontpage? Stay tuned... ;>

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin
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05-29-2001, 04:48 PM
Post: #3
Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
Jeff wrote:
- - - - -
PHP is much easier than Perl to get started in. It's a lot less finicky when it comes to server configurations, and has a lot of nice pre-written routines for database access and sessions that Perl does not.

<snip>

If you've ever written ASP, it's about the same thing.

<snip>
- - - - -

Well... I haven't written ASP. I maintain a Microsoft-free environment. <g>

But PHP sounds interesting...

- - - - -
There's certainly a LOT of money in NT servers, ASP, and Cold Fusion, but it'd be a lot harder for us to support something we don't use ourselves.

That said, the customer IS king and we will add stuff that - even if we don't use it ourselves - our customers demand.


<snip>
- - - - -

I won't be asking you for ASP anytime soon. And if you take my *nix box away, I'll smack you. Hard. <g> Seriously, I would never use an NT box. Too many reboots, too many holes.

- - - - -
I just checked Macromedia's site. It looks like there are several 3rd party solutions for some PHP functionality (not sure to what extent), and it sounds like they _might_ be willing to support PHP if there is suitable demand.
- - - - -

Thanks... I've seen that, and I've posted my comments on the site, through their wish-list form, before. The plug-ins that they have there still don't offer live display of data in UltraDev; they only provide easy ways to add connection and query code to your pages.

- - - - -
Who will crack first? DreamHost or Macromedia? Will DH ever support Frontpage? Stay tuned... ;>
- - - - -

Heheheheh...

I'd much rather see Macromedia crack and support PHP. That way, you guys don't have to foot the bill. <g>

Thanks again!

...Bob
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05-29-2001, 06:37 PM
Post: #4
Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
I've programmed in jsp(most of the java family included), cold fusion, asp, php, perl/cgi, xml, and a lot of others due to my interest in learning all these neat little scripts out there. It's actually rather fun to try to get an xml, php, and perl script to communicate to each other on a base application. Almost makes you laugh if you add a jsp in there. Smile

Anyway, why I really posted this message, is that out of my experience I have really liked php the best. It integrates a script programming base so smoothly with html it's feels nice. I would recommend it greatly if you are lookig into any script base.
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05-29-2001, 07:41 PM
Post: #5
Jeff, et al: DH/UltraDev/PHP/ColdFusion/etc...
The more I hear, the more interesting PHP sounds...

I've done some scripts in Perl and they generally work (my first major project was an application server that I had to write in 3 days...), but it's a painful process, since I haven't had a chance to sit down and tutor myself properly.

I started out hand-coding HTML in 1995, and have been known to make HyperTalk jump through hoops, but there now seems to be a lot less time in my day for learning scripting language number 231... <g>

Thanks for the comments...

...Bob
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