Zope

software development

#1

Hello,

Has anyone here used Zope on a website hosted by dreamhost.com?

I’d like to use URL rewriting to hide the usage of Zope and I wonder if that is possible with the current setup of Apache and if it is possible, then how I should do it.

Thanks,

Aaron “Optimizer” Digulla


#2

We don’t support Zope.


#3

Hello,

What does “support” mean in: It’s not allowed or you don’t help if there is some trouble with it?

Thanks,

Aaron “Optimizer” Digulla


#4

I’m 87% sure you won’t be able to install it / get it to work without root access. I did a quick look on the Zope site and didn’t notice the link for installation requirements / directions… do you have a link?


#5

This might be of interest:

http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/HowTos/zopeinstall/ZOPE-INSTALL-HOWTO

This thing does seem like a big application, however. Not sure how much resources it could potentially eat up.

Even more interesting to someone with a dedicated server on Dreamhost, is that Zope has been made into Debian packages for various distributions unstable, testing, stable.

http://www.zope.org//Members/vernier/Debian/Create_Debian_Package

They’re not packaged officially in the Debian distribution, however, and thus I’m pretty certain Dreamhost will not install one of these packages.

  • wil

#6

Actually, Zope is just an application which opens a network port, so unless you want to use some port < 1024 (say 80, the http port), one doesn’t need root or anything: The thing comes canned and installs itself into a directory and runs without needing anything else (following the Python paradigma of “Batteries included”).

Alas, it can tear a large hole into the security of a site (mostly on the Denial-of-service side, I guess - Zope goes to great lengths to plug many of the problems which come with “Batteries included” ;-)) so I wanted to know if installing Zope would get me expelled and/or whipped and the like.

What would be the best place to ask these kinds of questions?

Thanks,

Aaron “Optimizer” Digulla


#7

Well the official answer has pretty much always been “no”, but you’re welcome to write into support so that we can give you a more detailed “no” :> Generally, we don’t let people run persistent processes / daemons that run on a port (even one > 1024).

My guess is that a dedicated machine is the only way we’d support Zope. Nate - you care to elaborate on the particuar reasons we don’t support Zope?


#8

I see. Any other kind of CMF which you support and which would allow several admins to update one website concurrently?

I could set up something which uses CVS and some magic but Zope allows me to do many things which would make my life much easier :slight_smile:

So maybe you would be interested in some kind of collaboration: I could install Zope with Apache on my system and tell you how it could work (redirections, some general rules with does and don’t’s, etc) and then you could offer your customers an additional service?

Maybe offering more than mere Apache/PHP based webhosting would be something which gives you more customers :slight_smile:

Aaron “Optimizer” Digulla


#9

dedicated server

There are a number of PHP and Perl based projects around that can be installed on a shared hosting plans that don’t require any special server privilidges or access to services that can do what you want. More so in PHP than Perl, actually, as most Perl CMS require mod_perl.

There have been a number of posts to this forum from people succesfuly installing similar applications onto Dreamhost. Maybe if you poke around you will find something you like.

  • wil

#10

Every time we support something, we’ve got to support it forever.

And in a large-scale system (a few hundred machines) nothing is simple.

We’ve looked into supporting Zope before. And no, it doesn’t look hard…it’s not that we couldn’t figure out how to do it, it just wouldn’t be worth it for how few people would use it vs. the amount of support it would generate.

Anything sufficiently complicated like this generates a fair bit of support.

Plus security, teaching tech support people everything about it, keeping the stuff up-to-date, etc, etc.

If you can install it in your homedir we probably will never notice or care that you’re running it (we do generally discourage long-running processes, but if you’re not dumb we’ll never even notice). If we do notice we’ll shut it down.

But we’re not going to officially support it.

nate.


#11

I realize that and that’s why I ask :slight_smile:

My goal is to find something which satifies my need for a more abstract way to handle my website (it’s huge: 400MB in 15’000 files) and something which will cost you a smile (or it will show up on my bill and that’s something I would like to avoid, too :wink:

I’ve looked through the old postings here but I couldn’t find anything which solves my problem :frowning: A dedicated server would do but I realize how much time it would take for me to manage it.

OTOH, I would need a dedicated server for the following:

  • To be able to run Zope
  • To be able to add a single rewrite rule

Everything else on the machine would be just as on any other DH webserver, so a server of my own really looks like overkill.

On the con side, there is the risk which DH would take running Zope…

sigh

Aaron “Optimizer” Digulla


#12

Well, actually, our dedicated servers are managed and you use the exact same control panel to do stuff.

It’s pretty much like a shared account but you can do whatever you want with the machine.

Well, you can add rewrite rules as you wish using simple .htaccess files.

The last time I looked at Zope it wasn’t something that was doable purely in userland (it needed lots of modifications to the httpd.conf that weren’t doable in .htaccess files or, I believe, even in VirtualHosts).

You might be able to get this running yourself…I’m just saying that we’ll never have a checkbox on the panel saying “Turn on Zope!” and if we find that it consumes too many resources (by itself or because the port you’re binding to is a target for hacking) we’ll shut it down.

nate.