Time to move on?


#1

[quote]Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT)

Hello,

At this time mysql servers have been upgraded to 4.0.18 but the clients
have not been upgraded yet. I do not have an ETA on when or if we will
be upgrading the clients, but I will put in your request as a suggestion
to upgrade the clients . If there is anything else I can help you with
just let me know.[/quote]

Dreamhost:

You’ve been a pretty cool hosting company in the past, but it seems that we are coming dangerously close to a parting of the ways. When you last upgraded the MySQL server you failed to also upgrade the libsqlclient libraries on the web hosts, and they no longer work.

If there is a reason why you can’t or won’t upgrade to the proper libraries, then let’s hear it. If you cannot complete the upgrade in the near future, then a reasonable estimate of time, and a reassurance that it will be done is in order. Your woosy “maybe we"ll fix it, and maybe we won’t” is not an acceptable answer to ANY customer request. Your failure to answer my follow-up request one week later shows that Dreamhost’s attitude has made a 180-degree turn. It’s probably time for me to take my accounts and move on.


#2

Although you have a point, the problem is not the libmysqlclient.so lib but rather the client mods build with a V3 series libmysqlclient.so, therefore referencing the V4 lib with a V3 layout, but this shouldn’t be a problem.

The structure of libmysqlclient.so has changed in V4, the old clients should still work, in that it should normaly be backward compatible for some time, only lacking in support of the new V4 features when using old clients.

But since we can’t exclude anything with a major upgrade, it would be interesting to have any specific error message(s) you get, what exactly isn’t working? It might be worth a bug report unless its older code broken by some change in how V4 handles certain query returns or operand behavior.


#3

I think I have at least two valid points: DH did not do a complete upgrade to the DB software, and DH support has not been responsive to this customer’s legitimate inquiry.

I am very lost in this libmysqlclient.so guano, and for a damn good reason–it is system software. This is a low-level configuration that the customer has no control over, and should not even be aware of. It’s just supposed to work.

I think you are telling me that a v3 app should run on this v4 DB, and that’s fine, except I am trying to run a v4 app. What happens when I run a v4 app on a v4 DB with a v3 libmysql.so.10? I get a segmentation fault. This is not a bug, this is a misconfiguration.

Why should this be happening at all? Why the resistance to putting the proper libmysql.so.12 on the client machines (the webservers)? This issue should never have come up–v4 is supposed to be v4–the DB software should be properly installed. .

And if something like this DOES come up, which it will in a complicated system like this, it should not be treated as a nusiance. Customer Support’s blowoff message is a warning to me that the Dreamhost of 2004 is not the same DH I signed up with.


#4

I tend to agree with your point of view, although I can imagine DH being a bit reluctant to risk older “running” scripts getting brokken due to possible changes in how the clients behave after a major version upgrade, thereby possibly impacting far more users than the few trying to specifically run V4 features, its after all the interface between the world and DB.

It’s pretty much impossible to know the real impact of such an upgrade in a production environment hosting 1001 different products/packages, its safe to assume that DH is being very careful there.

Eventually it will get done of course, but propagated in time with the (statistical) assumption that product lifecycles will bring updated code more compatible or featuring detection/workarrounds for potential differences between DB generations.

Its true that a week is too long to get an answer of any kind, especially on a medium like this.
My guess is that the people answering support tickets have to wait on there turn to get an answer of a tech running arround at DH, since as you said, its system lingo, not a direct customer issue.
It would be more helpful to receive a message indicating that your question has been received and will be treated shortly by tech support or someone knowing about these issues, not all staff has this knowledge.

Losing time on these issues is very frustrating, that much is sure.


#5

A v4 system with v3 features is a v3 system as far as the user is concerned. Maybe Dreamhost made the partial upgrade for reasons of their own convenience. For this this customer it’s a confusing inconvenience.

But my topic is about poor customer support. It has gone from excellent to sullen to nonexistent. Yes, a week is too long to wait for an answer, but it has been over two weeks and I’ve still received no answer. That is unacceptable.

It is not just for this one instance that I am leaving, and this is not a big enough issue in my life to worry about further. Figure out your own problems. The fact that this conversation has no channel other than thru this public forum ought to tell you something.

P.S. You might tell your chief exec that a huge ego, a public forum (DH Newsletter v6.4 April 2004), and designer drugs are not a good combination.


#6

Thats like saying “I’ll dry the car” before even washing it, its not logical, there is a sequence.
There are several technical reasons as I described earlier why its being done this way, mess it up and possibly target 60-80% of your user base code broken somewhere, now thats bad.
Instead, you don’t provide V4 functionality until it has proven its compatibility, its a major upgrade, I wouldn’t dream of having 6000 sites broken because I recompiled a client mod for 2 or 5 customers asking it.

You have a point there, it shouldn’t take that long, but I also explained that not everyone knows about issues mentioned to them, I’m pretty sure they got a priority list, in where urgent calls get done first.
Having trouble with a piece of code that doesn’t work isn’t really qualifying as a service critical problem, it would have been nice to get some sort of answer there, but not necessarily a solution since its quite frankly a bit larger than a quick fix answer for common problems, and last time I checked, they’re pretty much busy making sure they do get stuff (even more) right this time, so far, I like what I see.
Patience goes a long way, although most lost that quality and ‘demand’ a solution to ‘their’ problem within the next 15 minutes, the world is a bit bigger place than what people perceptionaly make of it, just look arround with an open mind, you’ll find it has a lot of problems.
If it isn’t going the direction you want and aren’t willing to give them the benefit of doubt, then there is only one solution to that problem, and that is indeed to leave.
But criticism is an easy weapon, anyone can handle it and has unlimited rounds to virtually bury anything with into the ground, it doesn’t mean you don’t have a point, but they’re also human, a fact mostly dismissed using a medium like the net.

Sorry, but nope, why did I try to explain things to you? I did put in time and effort to come with an answer as to why things are going the way they are, that is, I’m trying to shed light into your problem, so in essence, I’m trying to find a solution to your problem by adding my 2 cents to it, thats not the (very) unflexible viewpoint of ‘figure out your own problems’, thats not a community way, I would have ignored your post completely if that would have been my state of mind.
I’m also pretty sure that the messages on this forum are getting scanned about what is going on in a community way at DH, its the preferred method of getting feedback actually. I’ve not seen a lot of hosting company’s who allow this kind of public feedback be shown to outsiders, it would be so easy to make this a private forum, DH didn’t, and I applaud them for that, it shows exactly how they look at things.

Cynical remark, you’ll find more than 6 billion different interpretations of that newsletter, I personally did find it pretty funny in a DH traditional kind of way, would you have reacted the same way when you wouldn’t have any problems with DH? Doubtful, therefore I understand your reaction.


#7

No. Obviously you don’t.

I think I understand your reaction to my reaction, but I assure you that you didn’t come close to understanding mine. Otherwise, your reaction to my reaction would have been different, and this reaction to your reaction to my reaction would have been unnecessary.


#8

Its pretty obvious you’re not interested in different views or understandings, which is by all means your prerogative.
I might have understood you wrong, after all, words can’t convey true meaning with a medium as the net, I just tried to shed light from a technical viewpoint, you rejected it because of a headstrong attitude that your view must be right, I gave you technical fact and you still maintain that your view is right, therefore you are right by your interpretation of things, nothing I say can change that, only you can do that.
No hard feelings here, just wanted to help.
Good luck with your new hosting Co, hope it works out :slight_smile: