Kiva is leaving Dreamhost


#1

I run a website that gives loans to the poor (www.kiva.org) . Dreamhost has crashed my site 2 times per week for a month. Today, it has been down for over an hour and we are losting $1000’s.

I implore anyone to avoid dreamhost. They will give you reasons for their incompetence. The simple fact is that they should be more prepared to handle the responsibility they are given in hosting 1000’s of sites. Dreamhost does not live up to their responsibility


#2

If you are giving loans to the poor and making $1000’s I would be more inclined to avoid your site rather than DreamHost. :wink:

In your similar post elsewhere you have been offered the chance to be moved to another server elsewhere.

Down 2 times a week is not a lot on a shared server at the cheap rates we pay. I am sure DreamHost are not doing it deliberately else they would not make any money either.

With all the money you are making and/or stand to lose you might find it a better option to use a dedicated server and pay a bit extra for a guaranteed uptime, since you are never going to get guaranteed uptimes on shared server systems. You will get best effort uptimes but not guaranteed ones. Especially when the buildings power supply blows up. :slight_smile:


Norm

Opinions are my own views, not DreamHosts’.
I am NOT a DreamHost employee OK!! :@

You act on my advice at your own risk!


#3

Would you shut up and leave already? I am sure I am not the only one sick up listening to you complain in 3 different threads. Sorry you had such a bad time, it happens. It will happen where ever you go.

Hope you are able to keep up the good work you keep telling us all about.


#4

It sounds to me like you let companies borrow money to loan to the poor as opposed to directly giving loans to the poor.

[quote]Does Kiva charge interest?

No. Kiva does not charge interest to our partners.


Do Kiva’s partners charge interest to the entrepreneurs?

Yes.[/quote]

So you charge no interest to the companies that disburse the loan, but those companies are allowed to charge interest to the poor people? It’s an interesting concept, but I think you should consider taking a very small percentage (a couple tenths of a percent, perhaps) in order to ensure that the service can be provided on an adequate server.

It’s always interesting to see which countries/territories receive the most aid. The top country (not sure what the listing order is), Somoa, has a 99.7% literacy rate. Compare that to mainland US:

You may also want to cite the sources. For instance, the Ecuador GDP claimed on your page is ~25% lower than what the CIA Factbook says. It may just be that your figures are from a few years ago (since they look to be 1-2K low for each country).

Minor/insignificant point: “Each loan is managed by a microfinance institution who we partner with and who administers the loan funds.” That first “who” should be “whom” since it is an object of a preposition.

And why did you claim that you are losing so many thousands of dollars? The figures your site shows don’t suggest that an hour is equal to a thousand dollars…

Check out Gordaen’s Knowledge, the blog, and the MR2 page.


#5

“Down 2 times a week is not a lot on a shared server at the cheap rates we pay.”

that’s such a load of crap.

please explain to me why my strictly business plan which costs $80 per month is constantly going down, way more then 2 times per week…


#6

You’re paying for more features–not more reliability. They’re all “shared” hosting accounts. Why would an $80 plan on the same server as a $8 plan be more reliable?


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#7

i didn’t say is should be more reliable but norm1037 was trying to justify the downtime based on the cheap rates. i was just pointing out that my account is not cheap therefor his logic is BS.

by the way, my mail and sites were down yesterday and my mail has been crapping out all day today. that’s 2 times in 2 days, not 2 times in a week.

i’m have been checking for system wide outages and dreamhost is telling me there are none. i’ve submitted a support request for email problems and have been waiting for over 2 hours. i would like to think that maybe that $80 a month would also give me a little better support but it obvioulsy doesn’t.


#8

Good luck with that. I put in a ticket over 6 hours ago about it (Same as you - no outgoing email yesterday, no retrieving it today). Nevermind that we’ve not had anything approaching reliable email for months.

  • BRoach

#9

Actually, he said, “on a shared server” - then added the cheap rates. Shared server is the key phrase.

I’m paying $15/month here and not having problems, which doesn’t mean anything either. There are hundreds of servers here. I happen to be on one that isn’t having problems. When I have problems, you might not. That’s shared hosting.

I’ve had problems at every host I’ve ever tried. The only exception has been when I use my own dedicated servers and I’m not at the mercy of other users in a shared environment.

If the good didn’t outweigh the bad, I wouldn’t have been here since 2002. I have other accounts at other hosts as well–they have their problems too… just not the same time that DH happens to have theirs.

DH clearly states that they try to answer within 24 hours for all plans. Why would you expect it to be different for you than what they clearly state? $80 might seem like a lot to you because you’re comparing it to $8, but it’s still just another shared hosting plan. Price a fully managed dedicated server with quick response times and let me know if you still think $80 is a lot. :wink:


:stuck_out_tongue: Save up to $96 at Dreamhost with 96DOLLARSOFF promo code (I get $1).
Or save $97 with TAKESEILERSCASH.


#10

I know the DH fanboys will simply change the Apology Du Jour to something else, but I don’t remember seeing “24 hours” in their advertising. Looking it up from the current “sign up” pages here’s what you’ll find:

We offer the same unparalleled technical support free to all our customers, no matter what your plan! You can contact support at any time day or night, every day of the year via email at support@dreamhost.com or through our web panel. From there you can also access your full support history including all account-related emails ever sent to you! We do not offer phone support currently as we feel it would be impossible to offer the quality services we do at the price points we do were we to take it on. However, our customers generally agree they’d rather send an email and have their solution within a few hours than wait on hold for hours just to talk to somebody on the phone who doesn’t even understand their problem! We have some of the happiest customers in the industry, mainly due to our very high quality support team!

Your personal definition of “unparalleled technical support” and “have their solution within a few hours” must be radically different than mine.

Oh, and even though they no longer even bother to call you when you choose the callback option (the more expensive plans get that), they still “charge” a call to your account.

I really want to buy some of whatever you’re drinking that makes you believe that the level of service being provided to people paying for “business” accounts is anywhere near the level you’d receive from a competing, reliable hosting company charging the same amount of money.

Our industry is fairly tight knit. I know what the biggest competitor is using for hosting. They’re never off the air, and aren’t paying much more than we are. We’re currently looking at moving to the same hosting company they’re using.

  • BRoach

#11

http://dreamhost.com/support.html

“We strive to answer all emails within 24 hours, and most are answered in subtantially less time.”

I can read. I guess that makes me a DH fanboy!

If you believe what you type, then leave. If you believe everyone has a better host than you, then you’re making yourself look stupid by staying here and whining about it.

After all, you’re shelling out a massive $80/month – I’m surprised you don’t have hosts begging you to switch.

I don’t know who your competitior is, but I do know that he’s not on a shared host that never goes down.

$80 isn’t as much as you make it out to be. You’ll know when your site is actually important when decide to shell out some cash for redundancy. Or just keep whining–I’m sure that will fix everything!


:stuck_out_tongue: Save up to $96 at Dreamhost with 96DOLLARSOFF promo code (I get $1).
Or save $97 with TAKESEILERSCASH.


#12

[quote]please explain to me why my strictly business plan which costs $80 per month is constantly going down, way more then 2 times per week…
[/quote]
Well, first of all, “constantly” is a non-specific kind of term I can’t really respond to; the last three weeks have been bad, but none of the sites I manage at Dreamhost were subjected to “constant” downtime even in the thick of the crisis, so I can only guess what to tell you here. Your frustration probably has a direct relationship to your expectations of what “uptime” you should be getting for your money, abd it has been unusually proplematic of late at Dreamhost. That said, “constantly” reamains a meaningless term used in this context.

As for the “please explain to me why” whine …er…uh…duh! Your “Strictly Business” plan lives on a shared server…shared servers do go down periodically for all kinds of reasons (most of which, I suppose, may be too complicated for someone who thinks $80.00 a month is a significant of money to invest in “business” infrastructure to grasp). However,there is a pretty good “explanation” of circumstances almost certainly related to your recent experience at [url=http://blog.dreamhost.com] the Dreamhost blog.

If the posts there, and at status.dreamhost.com, don’t sufficiently “explain” why shared servers go down, I’ll just file this one under “clueless”…

–rlparker


#13

Dude, cut the crap. Really. Are you really making that much money from DH referrals that you need to defend them here?

I’m glad you think that multi-day outages for the entire network are caused by “Shared hosting”, and that incompetent admins pushing bad config files to email servers and/or their auth server failing is also caused by “Shared hosting”, and that file servers failing on a regular basis are due to “Shared hosting”. Or any of their major issues are due to “Shared Hosting”

Please, save it for someone gullible enough to use your promo code.

No one here is talking about the usual problems you have with Shared Hosting. Hell, if that’s all it was, I’d have no problem with it. The first year we were here (as stated), that was all it was - small problems you expect … and it was dealt with quickly, and efficiently.

The Fact is, none of their major problems have anything to do with other users on our servers.


#14

yeah I agree, it doesn’t mean that if someone makes XXXX$/mo/week/day on website it must use a “expensive” server

it’s about server uptime
not about “it’s because shared host” then u can tolerate the uptime.

he pay for the service that DH’s promised
well… if you need so much uptime I suggest u move on to another host

I check your site, it’s really2 slow to load
even I feel that DH’s speed is not same like before
average speed just 50-400kB/s (but really, it’s rare up to 400kB/s)

before this happen I can dl to 1.4MB/s

and you know what
I never check my uptime w/ siteuptime anymore since it’s useless, it never reach 99% uptime

~Blebekblebek


#15

Did you fall off your skateboard and bump your head, or what? Actually, I have never made any money from DH referrals. I don’t use them, and have never published a promo code. If you were at all curious, my opinions on that whole subject have been stated many times on these forums: I think it is a conflict of interest to profit from a promo code when you are being paid for your advice. I do make money developing websites for clients and consulting on internet connectivity issues with clients. Dreamhost does not need me to “defend” them. That is completely irrelevant. It either works for you or it doesn’t. At the end of the day, it “works” for me, and my clients. It obviously isn’t working for you. Big Deal. Are you angry about that? If so, get over it, and yourself, and make a mature and intelligent business decision to move on. It is just juvenile to whine about it.

I never made such a representation, and I don’t believe that such a representation is true. The reasons for “multi-day outages for the whole network” have been well documented in this forum, on status.dreamhost.com, and on blog.dreamhost.com. “Dude”, learn to read!

As for many of the other problems you describe as being unrelated to the nature of shared hosting, you should know that to technically profficient people, you only advertise your ignorance if you maintain that many of these, or other of “their major issues” are unrelated to the nature of shared hosting: Multiple users, with widely varied levels of expertise (just read these forums for an indication of what I mean), running multiple scripts has everything to do with the stability of shared hosting.

Only a complete moron would argue that a single server under the control of a competent admin, who controls what is run on the server and how it is configured is less stable than a multi-user server. As for failing on a “regular basis”, any one who has been educated at all in the nature of hardware understands that things will fail. The point of my post (apparantly completely lost in the “Dude, cut the crap” indignation that someone does not agree with you) was that if you believe that Dreamhost shared hosting, warts and all, does not meet your needs, just make a business decision and vote with your wallet; spend your money on a host that is more suitable to your needs.

My post also points out that YMMV, as there are others that still feel the scope of services Dreamhost provides for the money they charge make hosting many kinds of sites with Dreamhost a good “business” decision. Not true for everyone, or for every kind of site, but true for many sites run by business people not afflicted with the “Dude” language/education/intelligence impediment.

Well, that have to be more magical than gullible, as I have never published a promo code…I guess that old skateboard injury is acting up again :wink:

Actually (again, “Reading is Fundamental”) many on these forums are talking about exactly these kinds of “usual” problems with their “mission critical”, “fighting childhood cancer”, “losing thousands of dollars a day”, (“insert your vitrolic here”) posts that are related to the nature of sharing a box with “skateboarder” admins.

Obviously, you have a limited understanding of what constitutes “major problems”. Power failures, filer crashes, infrastructure expansion related issues (or three) that take some time to fix are part of the game at this price level and, while they are “major” while they remain unaddressed, and could become “major” again if nothing is learned, they go away when resolved and might not surface again for a considerable period of time if steps are taken to prevent them. I think other kinds of problems are also “major” problems, and that are likely to be routine and ongoing in nature, becuase they are primarily related to sharing a box between users.

One thing good about shared servers is often the truly problematic users are also the most clueless, and are the first to scream “the sky is falling” and leave when things happen they can’t understand or that they feel their few dollars a month should have prevented. That makes the shared boxes an even better deal for those that realize there is good value to be had in a scope of services as broad as those offerred by Dreamhost for very little money and that “everything breaks” on occasion.

–rlparker
"No Promo Codes since 1998"


#16

Being that you don’t define “expensive” it is hard to argue your statement’s accurracy. What I was trying to say is that the kinds of redundancy upon redundancy, back-up systems for back-up systems, and general hardening necessary to virtually eliminate “downtime” are not cheap. Service agreements that tie monetary compensation to uptiime performance is not cheap. Business interruption insurance is not cheap. That said, “expensive” is in the eye of the beholder. I think I agree with you in that just because a site is “making money” does not mean it needs all those things; it might only be profitible becuase of the fact that the hosting is inexpensive.

It is about server uptime. Stuff breaks. All of these issues, while in and of themselves are not purely “shared server” related, they are greatly magnified and complicated by the distributed processing networking model used to support hugh numbers of “virtual hosts”.

Hardware failures cascade from a single down server to whole groups of users. On a dedicated server, that crash only takes out a single user, on shared servers large bunches of users go down. Downtime is impacted by the nature of shared hosting. What we are seeing here is that when stuff breaks, Dreamhost fixes it, and all the users who are unhappy with the speed of their sites on shared servers, the stability and/or capabilities of their email on shared email servers, and the performance of their databases on shared MySQL servers will miss the point entirely.

The overwhelming majority of users are well served by the service/value Dreamhost provides, and those who are not really should re-evaluate what they are willing to pay for what they hope to have.

Dreamhost had a bad month; stuff broke and mistakes were made. It happens. it has already been discussed near to death. You either believe it is satisfactory for you or it is not, believe Dreamhost is trying to improve stability and speed across the board or they are not, and you move your hosting or you don’t.

Either way, they choice is yours, so I don’t understand the frantic blathering. If something is becomes unpleasant for me, I don’t stay around and continue to pay so I can suffer and complain. I go find something more satisfying.

I think a lot of what we are seeing in these threads are the protests of those that really believe that $8-$80 a month can buy them hardening and redundancy that would cost thousands per month (at least several hundreds) to provide under any kind of a guaranteed uptime model.

Those that are realistic can, and do, easily see that a lot of smaller e-commerce and other web business models can only remain profitable without that big nut, and that Dreamhost can provide a great value for those kinds of businesses. If your site is getting successful enough to have your business severely impacted or curtailed by the occasional outage, you really need to be prepared to spend a whole lot more money and take respponsibility for having spent so little to protect yourself from the ravages of the next “crash”.

–rlparker


#17

I really understand
but the problem is still remain unsolved
this problemthat problemproblem againmore problem*

you know what lucky me I never use the mail service (gmail rocks), lucky for me I don’t use Dynamic site, lucky me because I don’t use my site to gain profit

because when my site down I don’t feel any loss

so? the point is… when you make a internet business, find another host!

specially when u dealling w/ $XXXX money every month

~Blebekblebek


#18

You may want to read all the words of the whole thread again, starting from the top. I was actually replying to the original poster ‘mattflannery’ not you.

Why should I explain to you why your ‘plan’ is constantly going down, ask DreamHost not me. Why do you think you are so important that I have to explain your account problems? Are you a relative?

If you have taken out the level 4 plan why not use the telephone support option? I am sorry if you are having problems with your account but I cannot fix it for you.

In commenting to ‘mattflannerys’ original post it is right to say that down 2 times a week on a shared server at such cheap rates is not a lot.


Norm

Opinions are my own views, not DreamHosts’.
I am NOT a DreamHost employee OK!! :@

You act on my advice at your own risk!


#19

“If you have taken out the level 4 plan why not use the telephone support option?”

because they don’t call you and charge a phone call to your account. i’ve tried that option a few times and never once recieved a call.


#20

What multi-day outages? My services were down for a few hours during the well-documented Los Angeles power outage, but apart from that outages have been merely sporadic (according to my monitoring service) - and never lasting for more than a few minutes.

Frankly, I think everyone is making a big fuss over hardly anything. Although the service has been poor over the last 3 weeks, that is an exception rather than a norm.


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