Joomla! and WordPress - Where to install?


#1

In another thread, “dj” wrote:

Almost anything is “doable” though some things are are more easily and conveniently done than others, and some thing produce better results than others! It’s a little difficult to know how to best respond, because you were not clear as to the directory into which your WordPress was installed. You also did not indicate whether you installed WordPress yourself, or whether you used the “DreamHost one-click installer” (or whether you used the “easy” or the “advanced” one-click installer option!)

If your WordPress is installed into a subdirectory of one of your domain directories, then you would approach it one way and if your WordPress is installed in the “base” of one of your domains (directly in the directory from which your domain is served - which is generally one named "youdomainname.tld) then another approach is indicated.

This is because WordPress makes extensive use of apache re-write rules to manipulate urls, which can cause problems for your Joomla! installation if you install it beneath your WordPress installation in the directory tree (in a subdirectory of the directory that holds your WordPress installation). Note that this can be done, but it can be problematic and unnecessarily complicates the installation and maintenance of Joomla!.

Additionally, if you are using the DreamHost “one-click” installer to install these applications, there are further concerns with your directory structure if you want to use the “automagic upgrade” process.

If you post back and tell me how you installed WordPress (whether you did it manually, with the “easy” one-click installer, or the “advanced” one-click installer) and where you installed it (the directory into which you installed WordPress) I’m happy to help you figure out the best way to run both WordPress and Joomla! together on your domain(s).

If you are installing these applications manually you will need to create a database to hold the data, and a MySQL host via which to reach the database, but if you use the “one-click” method that will all be handled for you by the one-click installer. We can talk more about that if/when you post back with the information about your WordPress installation that I asked for earlier. :wink:

The term “subdirectory” refers to any directory that is within another (or below, or under, another in the file system structure). Depending upon what directory that subdirectory is in, it may, or may not be accessible to the web. If it is within a directory that is accessible to the web than you can “browse” to it, but if it is not, than you can’t.

A “subdomain” refers to a domain that is part of a larger domain, and it can be visited in a browser in the same manner as the larger domain. In fact, the way DreamHost has it set up, you can think of it as a domain of it’s own - because it has all the characteristics of any other domain you have installed on DreamHost! Maybe some examples you help here:

To reach a “subdirectory” of your site with a web browser, if your site ( the “larger domain”) is at example.com, and you have a subdirectory named “blog” that is “in” the “example.com” directory of your user (ftp/sftp,shell) space, then you would reach it by browsing to “http://example.com/blog/”. Now if that subdirectory was outside your “example.com” directory in your user space (say in the same directory that holds your “example.com” and other “domain” directories) then you would not be able to access it directly with a web browser. Sometimes programs store data in such subdirectories so that the program can access the data but a web browser cannot.

To reach a " subdomain" of your site (which you can think of a a "site within a site, or a “sub-site”) with a web browser, if your site is at “example.com”, and you have a subdomain names “blog”, the you would reach it by browsing to “http://blog.example.com”.

That said, you can often use a subdirectory for a “site within a site”, so that you have, for example, “example.com/blog” and “example.com/joomla”, and “example.com/gallery” for you applications (and many do!) and this is no problem at all if your main “example.com” site (directory) does not have an installation installed that does a lot of modifications to the environment via an .htaccess file. If it does, these can generally be worked around, but it can get complicated!

Because of these potential complications, it is often simpler and easier to manage to just put certain application into a subdomain if you have an application in the main domain directory that does this. This is why I really want to know where your WordPress installation “lives” now, so I can besst advise you on how to proceed.

I know that is pretty complicated, but hopefully it will give you some ideas of what is involved. Post back with additional details of your WordPress installation and what you want to do with Joomla, and I’ll be happy to try to help you figure out where and how to install it. :wink:

–rlparker


#2

You are a saint rlparker [bow]


#3

Dear rlparker,
Thanks so much for all the info, whew!
Ok - here goes:
"If your WordPress is installed into a subdirectory of one of your domain directories, then you would approach it one way and if your WordPress is installed in the “base” of one of your domains (directly in the directory from which your domain is served - which is generally one named “youdomainname.tld) then another approach is indicated.”

  • OK, I did a one-click advance install of wordpress and created the database and mysql directory. I think this would be my “base” directory since it is hooked to my domain name; “DelphicMedia.com”. Here is the url - if that is helpful: http://www.delphicmedia.com/. [I’m happy to provide you with my login info under separate cover if you want to take a look at how I’ve set it all up.] Basically, I set up three different directories - which appear as blue folders - for the 3 web sites I plan on uploading to DH. Please let me know if I am understanding this correctly: I hope to be able to provide links to these sites from my main site [delphicmedia.com] - since they’ll all have separate urls? It sounds like Joomla can’t be a subdomain of WordPress but could have it’s own … For my purposes, Joomla doesn’t need to have the same domain name - I was planning on using it as a separate site with one of the other domain names I’ve purchased. And here I’ll stop, because now I’m not sure if I can have several top tier domains hosted under one account …“A DNS hierarchy consists of the root-level domain at the top, underneath which are the top-level domains…”

“Post back with additional details of your WordPress installation and what you want to do with Joomla…” So my idea is not really to have a “site within a site” - but several separate sites that I can play around with - one a WordPress, one Joomla, and one that I’ve built using only html…if this makes any sense. Thanks so much !

dj


#4

Ok! so in this case the WordPress installation is your your domain’s “base” directory", which means you will likely be much happier if you install your Joomla! site into a domain, or a subdomain, of it’s own rather than installing it into a subdirectory of your DelpicMedia.com site.

One of the greatest things about a DreamHost account is that you can host as many domains, or subdomains, as you want without incurring additional hosting charges (as long as you stay withing your bandwidth and disk storage limits). Of course, if you install additional “full” domains, you will have to register them, and that requires you pay a registration fee to register the domain.

Here is the beauty of subdomains - they have *all the advantages of, and work just like, “full” domains, but you can add as many of those as you like under any full domain that you own, or on the DreamHosters.com domain (which DreamHost makes available to you for this purpose!) without paying additional registration fees at all - this lets you have as many “somename.yourdomain.tld” or “somethingnooneelseisusing.dreamhosters.com” subdomains (“sites” if you will) as you want.

I think you are on the right track, but I still think you may be confusing subdirectories with subdomains to an extent. This is understandable because some other hosts establish subdomains by making subdirectories under a “main domain” or “pimary account domain” - DreamHost does not do this. Essentially, your dreamhost account structure should look something like this:

your "username" directory |_________ delphicmedia.com |______ files and subdirectories for delphicmedia.com |________ domain2.tld |______ files and subdirectories for domai21's site |_________ subdomain.domain1.tld |______ files and subdirectories for the subdomain.domain.tld site |________ subdomain.domain2.tld |______ files and subdirectories for the subdomain.domain2.tld site |________ other files and directories that are part of your account but are not directly accessible from the web

Here again, I think you are confusing subdirectories and sub domains… Joomla! can be installed in a subdomain of your WordPress site with no trouble at all, using the directory structure above. Since WordPress is installed in the delphicmedia.com directory, you do not want to install Joomla! in a subdirectory of that, but rather create a new subdomain (or a full domain if you wanted to) called “blog.delphicmedia.com” or “wordpress.delphicmedia.com”, etc., similar to the way “subdomain.domain1.tld” is shown in the diagram above.

Note that while you can do this by adding the directory with your FTP client, and then adding the subdomain in the control panel and indicating there that you want the subdomain to use the directory you already created (your “blue folders”?), you don’t need to do that - when you add the domain or subdomain in the panel, DreamHost will create the appropriate directory for the domain “automagically” if it does not already exist.

Once this is done, and DNS is updated, you can then install Joomla!, another WordPress, gallery, or another application or website into any of those “new” domains or subdomains as you wish. You can then link to them, between them, among them, etc. to your heart’s content - they are “full websites” just like any other website on the web (well, hopefully they are more pleasing to look at and more useful than the typical website, eh?) :wink:

[quote]
For my purposes, Joomla doesn’t need to have the same domain name - I was planning on using it as a separate site with one of the other domain names I’ve purchased. [/quote]
Whether or not you have your Joomla! site using the same “main” domain name as your existing site or not is up to you, and it’s primarily a matter of preference. You could use a subdomain of one of your existing domains, or a dreamhosters.com subdomain, or a whole new domain if you wish - just don’t try to install Joomla! as a subdirectory of your other site where WordPress is at the “base” level - there will be lot’s of problems to fix to get that to work, and there is no advantage to going through that in the situation you describe.

On DreamHost you most certainly can host as many domains, and subdomains, as you want within your single account. You just need to consider how and where to install things so that they work they way you want them to work, and as conveniently as possible. :wink:

Yep! Than makes perfect sense, and for that use I strongly suggest you take advantage of those freely available unlimited domains and sub domains, particularly while you are experimenting! They make things a lot easier to manage when you are exploring new site development possibilities and exploring techniques of site construction. I routinely create and use subdomains like “development.mydomain.com”, “testingwp.mydomain.com”, etc. when “experimenting”, and I find it very convenient and useful to be able to do that as easily as you can on DreamHost. :slight_smile:

–rlparker


#5

Dear rlparker,
You ARE a “saint” as another poster pointed out here … I really appreicate your explanation - it really helps! I’m learning this all for the first time [at 53 years old] but if you tell anyone - I’ll have to kill you… [see BIG smiley face] . Thanks so much again.

dj


#6

Ha ha! You are welcome, and I hope that you find at least some of that discussion useful! Good luck with your projects, and don’t hesitate to come back to the forums if you need more help (or to share your knowledge with others!) :slight_smile:

–rlparker


#7

I have a similar question.

I loaded joomla on www.mydomain.org, thinking this was the best option for my project. I later decided that I could accomplish the same thing with a WordPress site, which I named blog.mydomain.org.

I was correct.

I know how to remove the Joomla site from www.mydomain.org. But, I’m not sure how to move the WordPress site from blog.mydomain.org to www.mydomain.org.