HELP -NotForProfit-Recent double billing problems


Disclaimer :slight_smile: – i am just an every day - non techy person - who happens to run a not for profit for kids who are dying or abused. Http:// – yes - we work hand to mouth (no paid staff and take no government money) and did this hurt us??? over $2000 us is a large amount of money to a small not for profit like ours - yes it hurt us greatly. And for all of you that say – we should do better with manageing credit cards - etc (as in the blog) im glad YOU are so well off – please - donate money to our DH account so that I can meet the yearly hosting fee AGAIN ;)) it would be greatly appreciated – and amazing use of a few dollars from each:)) have anything ugly to say?? please, try to be at least a little civil – i deal with enough rl drama helping kids face death and trying to pay the bills.

That said, I read the emails and the blog. checked my invoices - checked with the bank (did my stuff) --yes billed in January – Now it is due again :slight_smile: in two days. No comment. My main comment is this: this exact thing happened to me at SecondLife (also uses paypal - the regular one that the blog/or comments said are NOT in any way similar?? right - my experience says differently). My fiasco at SecondLife came after many problems - i decided to depost $1000 us into my “account” to cover my own seeming inability to keep control of how paypal/mybank/secondlife intereacted.

They failed to CLEARLY advise me that an “immediate bank transfer” from my bank -to paypal – to second life - was not immediate!!! (Since this time and my complaints THEY have changed how the advise people – hmmm wonder if their lawyers told them they needed to correct that?)

in one week they ate up the $1000 (it totally disappeared into the netherlands never to be heard of again) for 7 days both claim they did not have it - but charges were being made for purchase of land in 2L - and bouncing on my checking account (since the 1000 did not exist) 1800 us in bounce charges later?? I had to depost 400 more $ to SL – to cover the problems in 2L – The bank closed the checking account - i still owe 1800 in bounce fees - I wasted 3 entire days on the phone trying to get anyone to answer my questions or stop the bounce dings (which they kept on dinging anyway – and each saying not my fault - of course)

THEN the beauty?? a week later they REBILLED the $300us tier fees! Oh yes, they sent a note to the blog (the ultimate legal not my fault be all and end all of the techno age) that oooh gee you 9 milions of users – you probably got double billed for your tier this month – gee we are sorry - YOU need to research it and tell us if there was a problem. OMG (does this sound familiar?)

And Yes – i am just an every day - non techy person - who happens to run a not for profit for kids who are dying or abused – yes - we work hand to mouth - and I will not find shame in that no matter what you say.

But i would really - really like to know how this phenomonon can happen so closely in time - two two paypal related places - and not be related – Unless people saw the FIRST one get away with it? and no real national blow up?? hmmm - all i know is - I DID NOT get away with it --it did harm me - and no one took responsibility OR helped us repair it --we were punished - just for using services and expecting a modicum of help and accountability.

What I DO wish is that i had millions of users – who icould mistakenly bill $1 US to - post on a blog that i made that mistake – and say - we know $1 is nothing to you - but it means a lot to us – if yuou want your $1 back - I will send it -please send me an im. If you want to support the amazing work we are doing at AngelAID with yoru $1 --send me an im to keep it OR send more :wink: OR – do nothing and we will accept this as permission to keep it:)) How would YOU answer my blog ( if you even heard about it?) IF you would let me keep the $1 us?? donate it now to the DH for us ;)) OR go to our website and donate ;)) Goodness - 9million – i might actually NOT have to worry about extra charges and global mistakes either :wink:

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


If you are really a not-for-profit organization, then you should be able to qualify for free hosting.

Max discount on any plan with promocode SCJESSEYTOTAL


Disclaimer: I’m sorry. I’ve read your post three times, top to bottom, and I am still confused as to what you are trying to say, what you are asking, and what response you are looking for. :wink:

I visited your site … “Not for profit” description notwithstanding, are donations to your organization tax-deductible? Is your organization a “501©(3) organization”?

Have you looked at Can you qualify for a “Free” account?



I didn’t even bother checking to see if we were double billed, since we’re hosted here free as a non-profit. I was very glad when DreamHost started that practice! :slight_smile:


Yes, you should consider moving your hosting to DH from Yahoo to take advantage of the free hosting provided to qualified 503©(3) organizations, unless you switched to Yahoo as a result of the billing issues.

BTW, how on earth did you rack up $2000 in bank charges from what is presumably a simple shared hosting account (under the assumption you don’t have a free hosting account yet)?

Finally, just as a matter of curiosity, why did you need $1000 in Second Life? Presumably, this was a personal expense, or does your non-profit have a Second Life presence?

What are [color=#CC0000]50DISK50[/color], [color=#CC0000]3DOM50[/color], and [color=#CC0000]1IP1DOM50[/color]?
They’re Dreamhost coupons!


If they’re legit they need someone who’s good with PR.

@OP: Arlene, you’re associated with 8 other domains. Care to list them?


heh. Nice catch! :wink:



scjessey -

Thank you so much for this information -did not know it existed when we signed up (if it did) probably because we were recommended to this host by someone I now understand- received a REFERRAL for our signing up and paying.

I will be faxing (if it isnt still full from complaint mail) our 501©3 legal IRS determination letter for AngelAID - as a LEGAL not for profit in the US - thank you for being helpful - instead of ugly and impuning our legality like other posters.

The free service is greatly needed and appreciatee --BECAUSE they not only billed us (to the checking account debit card that was closed - as explained in the prevoius post) - but then they made the REFUND to the same closed account! and now they say we owe them THAT money (which once again exists NO WHERE becuase they crredited a closed account) but they are going to close my account for NOT REFNDING THEM THE REFUND WE DONT HAVE and this year is due - so now they want $400 - im soo confused. But I will apply - by fax - since I cannot find anyone to speak with. Again, thank you for the information - it was helpful and appreciated.

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


Dear rlparker

Thank you for the civility of your response.

It was confusing - forgive me- let me try again.

  1. (transparently tells you who I am)

  2. Tries - unsuccessfully to explain an EXACT similar double billing situation to millions of accounts which happened (via PAYPAL software) at 2nd life (which is where the $2000 was lost in charges)

2a Issues - differences in times banks/firms/paypal hold funds before making them available - EACH time they change hands (evidenced by the differences in how people responded for thier individual situation on the blogs)

2a.1 doesnt feel too bad about this one - since DH admits in thier own humourous “5 things we learned” that THEY did not know of this mass divergence - or that monies could be LOST to they system (as in the credits they made to closed or denighed accounts).

  1. Question I asked which has not been addressed:

But i would really - really like to know how this phenomonon can happen so closely in time - two two paypal related places - and not be related

3a. DH states they do not USE Paypal - just the software. Fiine - I was (unsuccessfully) trying to explain that the EXACT same double billing happened to millions of Second LIfe users - on the PayPal system - SEVERAL months before this paypal software created the exact same situation at DH. In a way - i am helping DH - if this is true - and Paypal did not notify them of this software problem - seems like DH could get reimbursed from Paypal software division – for NOT advising them of the problem.

  1. Mistakenly tried to use humor note to self do not use humor with people who say they like a light humorous approach while blasting others for using it

5a - tried to show in a humorous way that
5a.1 I wish i had even the Capacity to make such a mistake - to the tune of $1 from 9 million people (as there are in 2nd life)
5a.2 After taking the money I would post a disclaimer from a little known website (as in my case) -stating that
5a.2a if they wanted it back - we would send it - (as quickly as we could get a faulty system to do it) and like DH we dont have a support staff to answer your responses - so dont ask for help or answers - just read the blog.

5a.2b if they did not want it back, thanks for the donation - please send an email if you need your donation acknowledgement for the IRS.

5a.2c if we did not hear from them- we would take it as acceptance of the $1 as a donation - and that you do not need us to send you a donation acknowledgment letter for the IRS… Thank you for your continued understanding and support.

PS – sorry I’m not good at this - its not my field - helping sick kids is, mistakenly tried to bring to the forums attention that paypal/banking/accounting - had struck before.

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


Lensman - thank you

We were trying to move our hosting to DH (all of it) and did not know it could be free - only that it was much more reasonable and offered many more services.

Still hope to move them - and save the monthly fees at Yahoo - our problem was and remains - this is not our field - we have to rely on volunteers.

That is why our site on DH have not been funcational for the year we did pay for- also why we have not moved the yahoo site here – have no idea how to do this and our wonderful volunteer is in college and overwhelmed.

As stated in a prevous answer the $2000 was racked up regarding the 2nd life issues. This one at DH hasnt cost us anything (except possibly the site being will be closed for non payment) BECAUSE it was billed to the same account (auto bill) that the 2nd life mess caused to be closed. I was not clear on how i stated that.

And no we do not yet have the free account - but as stated in an earlier answer - working on it.

Re presence in 2nd life - YES our not for profit does have a presence there (visit the Jewell sim - where AngelAID and AngelHEROS (the new virtual global foundation are located) - the monthly tier is $295 us – the $1000 was to prepay 3 months tier - to safely give us a cushion - AND no it was not foundation money - it was personal money. AND even though we are a registered 501©3 with Second Life - we do NOT get the reduced tier because our land is on mainland AND we could only purchase it small pieces at a time (which is how the money transfer problems started in the first place). Hope that helps your curiosity.

Thank you for asking so i could clear this up.

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


We are legit:

Yes we do need someone who is good with PR – we are all volunteers - I’m very good at helping dying and abused kids - not so good at PR – Do you want either job?

@OP (what does that mean?)

Yes this is Arlene Shipley - I was transparent about that when i listed our website - the only real one we have - since DH has never been finished to be functional.

YES we own about 15 domain names - we wre told to do this by our prevous web master (a volunteer) who told us to get all names associated with our foundation - and the words we use

so yes - we ahve (purchased over about 15 years ago – when there WAS only .net and .com – and we wre not a net provider. (when org became available iot was purchased by someone else before we realized we should buy names so others could not)

So yes we have names associated with AngelAID
AngelHEROS AngelHEROES - AngelBLESSINGS and AngelSOURCE and AngelMOM (which i am known as)

none of these do we pay for the privacy (hidden) owner option (dont waste the money) so it is transparent - as you found when you searched.

Your point is???

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


Dear rlparker - et al

Exactly what did you catch me at?

  1. not being good a playing word games with people who obviously enjoy them. Never said i was - dont want to be - glad i not.

  2. trying to let others know that this was NOT an isolated DH problem. Not sorry i tried - sad it failed - sad i posted it to the wrong place.

  3. Trying to be humourous - and doing it badly.

  4. Having poor web sites - because we cant afford to pay someone. (will add the validation to the website - as soon as we can figure out how).

  5. Being uninformed in a field we dont want to deal with to begin with.

You caught us -hope that made your day - and your point is?

Have a blessed day, it is a choice


Wow. You need to lighten up a bit there, Arlene. :wink:

There was no “point” at all in my response to sxi - I was just light-heartedly acknowledging sxi’s research (did you not see, or just not understand, the “wink” that ended my one-line response to his message?)

At any rate, I’m sorry if I aggravated you. I apologize profusely, and will refrain from commenting on the thread further other than to say this:

Representations on some of your websites that you are a 501©(3) organization only makes the absence of such a claim on other of your websites more noticeable. People are often (and I think understandably) suspicious of what they might perceive to be inconsistent claims made from various sites operated by the same people and might wonder why someone would claim the status in one place, but not in another.

That’s way I asked about your organizations 501©(3) status … before I researched it myself and located your guidestar listing. The purpose in all of that was not to “catch” you, but to encourage you to avail yourself of the “free” account offer if you qualified.

My only reason for responding to you initially was to try to figure out what you were trying to say, what you wanted, and whether or not I could help … hence my question about your organization(s’) status and the link to the “free account” information.

Anyway, good luck …



Doesn’t go anywhere.

And I’m very good at ignoring snide rhetoric. I’d say “nice try” - but it wasn’t :wink:

It means “Directed toward the Original Poster”.

I’ll refer you to my original question.

Have you checked them recently?

I didn’t have one, I asked a question. But okay, I’ll play along.

This forum is not associated with PayPal, nor with Second Life.

It’s hard to tell if you were bitching about PayPal, Second Life, or both. The thing that took me aback was you asking people here to donate to your DH account in practically the same breath as talking about buying land in a fantasy world. If you’re chasing donations it would be in your best interests to not talk about how you can stick $1000 into an online game, hence my suggesting to Lensman that if you are legit then someone else should be doing the PR. But hey, that’s just my opinion.


For a nonprofit site, a .org domain would make more logical sense than a .com domain, which implies that it’s a commercial entity.

– Dan