I'd like to start a discussion about what to do about crossposts and "repeated questions".

This was sparked by this thread.

I am *not* complaining about any posters in the thread, who I think are all valuable members of this forum.

I think crossposting does need to be discouraged strongly and that short of us having a moderator to delete/move/merge threads, someone should take the initiative to shut one of the threads down by directing everyone to the "main" thread.

I think threads that could be answered by a simple search should either be answered independently anyway or answered by posting links to previous threads that answered the question. I personally think we should be nice to new posters as long as they have posted the question nicely. I don't really have strong opinions one way or the other if the original poster doesn't post their question in a nice, respectful way.

Thoughts?

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I think crossposting does need to be discouraged strongly and that short of us having a moderator to delete/move/merge threads, someone should take the initiative to shut one of the threads down by directing everyone to the "main" thread.

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Crossposting is a PITA to deal with. My preferred way of dealing with it has evolved lately. I used to either just ignore threads that were posted to multiple forums or respond only with "Don't crosspost", but I'm now of the thought that answering in *one* thread, and referring to that thread in the other(s) while pointing out that crossposting isn't desirable seems to me to get the person an answer as conveniently as possible while still discouraging crossposting. Just my opinion, and YMMV.

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I think threads that could be answered by a simple search should either be answered independently anyway or answered by posting links to previous threads that answered the question.

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I agree, though I don't think it hurts at all to point out a search is a useful tool. Being "encouraged" to search is one of the ways people learn how to help themselves.

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I personally think we should be nice to new posters as long as they have posted the question nicely. I don't really have strong opinions one way or the other if the original poster doesn't post their question in a nice, respectful way.

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I feel the same way. This is particularly true as the forums have increasing numbers of those for whom English is a second (or third) language. The "niceness" factor is often confused with a lack of facility in the language.

That said, and with human nature being what it is, some posters are likely to rub some folks the wrong way, for any number of reasons - I don't know how that can, or if it even should, be totally eliminated.

--rlparker

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#id272330

crossposts: who cares, serial threads are out, parallel processing is in.

repeated questions: write wiki articles instead of forum posts, and point to them for answers.

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repeated questions: write wiki articles instead of forum posts, and point to them for answers.

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I'm all for wiki articles, but I'm actually interested in the tension between wikis and forums. I think we have a pretty good mix here at dreamhost.

Here's my take:
1. Wikis contain authoritative articles on subjects
2. Forums can contain canonical threads on subjects. These threads are sometimes authoritative and are sometimes merely a bibliography for all the relevant threads on the topic.

Wikis are like a soup in that all the individuals have been boiled out to form one single monolithic uniform article.

Forums are like stews in that there are still very identifiable single-author articles. There can be multiple takes on a single subject. In some ways, it's much more like the blogosphere.

All this said, I do highly recommend the practice of linking to wiki topics.

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I certainly agree about crossposting. I think it is mostly new users that do not know where to post and think that those who respond are part of DH and hover in their own section of the forum. I guess it never occured to them that if they move from one section another that we do so as well.
I would love to point to the main thread if I knew where it was. The threads move fairly quickly in some sections.
I would be more in favor of a few moderators just to merge threads and delete spam. Heck, I am sure some of us would even be willing to volunteer if DH does not want to pay their employees to be moderators.
Silk

My website

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I would be more in favor of a few moderators just to merge threads and delete spam. Heck, I am sure some of us would even be willing to volunteer if DH does not want to pay their employees to be moderators.

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I think some moderation would be great too, but I have to be candid, my experience so far in volunteering to help sysop the wiki has been aggravating at times.

Any volunteer can confirm that all it takes is a very few persistent problem children that fight each and every attempt at moderation and you can find yourself in "mod hell"

--rlparker

The cross posting problem seems to occur when a new poster has come on and is uncertain as to the response time, and posts in a number of forums that seems related.

If that person is new, and having a problem with a third party media related software, they could theoretically post it in 4 forums unaware that most people read all threads.

As for repeated questions, sometimes reading an already answered question doesn't completely cover everything, or you do a search and you don't match the useful threads properly to your search.

Its great to have a helpful community that is willing to help out even though that same question has come up over and over.

I was semi guilty of it when I first moved over to Dreamhost, when in an attempt to reduce the number of new threads, I posted to semi linked questions in the same thread. I've been on other forums where starting two new threads related to one general topic results in people telling me to put it all my questions in one topic. Its not always easy to know what people generally prefer on a forum when you're new.

There's no if you're new read this thread anywhere. Maybe that would be useful to have. A kind of "Idiot's Guide to Posting Here". After all each forum is different....

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Those are some good and insightful observations, and you make a lot of good points.

This forum software also contributes to the frustration with cross-posting that many regulars here experience because many of us read "everything" via the "Past 24 hours - Past 48 hours - Past 7 days" links because it is just easier to keep track of what is new that way.

Actually, repeated questions don't really bother me so much because it is easy enough to suggest a search and/or provide an initial link to a previous answer or the relevant wiki content. The new user can always post back if that didn't answer their question(s), or to get something clarified.

It's very true that each forum/community is different, and a "New Users' Manual (Idiot's Guide To Posting Here)" might be a useful thing. Possibly even using ESR's classic as a template.

It's a shame, in a way, that this forum has no "sticky" function to facilitate the continuous display of a "Read This First!" post/guide. Maybe linking to that kind of material in the wiki from the base Discussion Forum entry page would be a good idea (or even embedding a link to that material within the material shown when a user visits the Forum's FAQ link).

--rlparker

There's another reason to get the software updated. (stickies)

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Got me thinking...

While all of the information can be found from links (DH home page, /support.html, ... ), these links pretty much assume the user knows how and why and when to use one or another.

Carrying this a little further, the URLs help.dreamhost.com and support.dreamhost.com do not resolve.

Both would make great entry pages with links to, and basic information about:

- FAQs
- Dreamhost status page
- The panel login page
- Squirrel mail login page
- Web ftp page
- DH contact page (panel down, account approval status, ...)
- TOS pages
- Wiki
- Forum
- Suggestions page
- ?
- DHSOTM
- DH homepage
- DH Blog

An easy to find, and prominently linked page pulling all resources together, each with a short explanation, may help reduce these problems, and help new customers find the right resource in the shortest time.

Many of the repetitive questions are basic, and from new users. I think they post here because they see it as the easiest way to get the information. Many have no clue the wiki exists until they learn about it here.

I too am a fan of ESR's classic, and I do occasionally get a reply to a post of mine suggesting "<Some_basic_resource> is your friend". Still, it is a great guideline for posting.

Since some maintenance is needed anyway (the kbase link on the discussion entry page has no page source, at least on my client), there is an opportunity to create a better front end for DH resources.

And after all of that... It is probably still best to answer those basic repetitive questions from new users politely, even when the OP should have searched first.

The forum entry page would benefit from improved content, both in terms of a "user's manual", and an opportunity to place links to wiki pages. What about replacing the "Enter Message Forum" link text with "I Agree To These Guidelines"

As to cross-posting... Or all-caps posts... Or bumping... My desire to provide any useful information greatly diminishes, especially if good answers are already available through search. Sometimes silence is the best response.

Finally, could we maybe amend "Last but not least: Be nice!" to officially exempt abusing spammers?

Regards,
Rudy

I think your idea(s) about using those subdomains on dreamhost.com are great.

I've also been "irritated" about the sadly outdated "gateway" page at http://discussion.dreamhost.com/index.html also - it really does need an overhaul. It's kinda embarrassing to have that link to the defunct KBase still sitting there since the KBase was "retired" a couple of years ago.

There are a lot of things that could be done to help provide more introductory info to forum users - just replacing that KBase link on entry with a link to the wiki, and maybe even a "Intro to the Forums" resource that lived there would be a big help (and *that* resource could be maintained by the community).

And yeah, Ive been taken to task a few times myself for not being "nice" enough to miserable spamtards ... someone occasionally throws that ""Last but not least: Be nice!" out whenever anyone objects to anyones behavior on the forums. I don't know that can be helped much ...

I think on the whole, this is a friendly and welcoming forum, and I don't see that it hurts to encourage new users to respect the way the community works here. I also realize that is just my opinion and I know the others feel differently about it.

Silence is (often) indeed "Golden"!

--rlparker

http://www.dreamhost.com/support.html and https://panel.dreamhost.com/index.cgi?tree=support.msg& link to "the wiki, discussion forum, chat room and DreamHost status page" and "contact us".

and "Terms of Service | Anti-Spam Policy | Privacy Policy | Whois"